debiddos argument

After much crying and whining by the prowhalers I have written another response using nothing but fact, logic and reason. Many of you will be upset by this article, that is not my intention, but as we know many times truth does infact hurt.

There are many different issues I could bring up, but I will limit it to the hunting practices / policies of Japan, and interesting facts about the Makah.

Japan kills over 500 whales 30,000 dolphins each year, and sells them for profit in their fish markets. We will concentrate on the whales. Species such as Sperm and Bryde’s, which are endangered under U.S. law. The Japanese whaling fleet is currently returning from the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary surrounding Antarctica, where it kills 440 Minke whales annually. Minke is the last of the Great Whale species that has not been decimated by commercial whaling. Japan claims that the whaling is for scientific purposes, but the whale meat is sold as a delicacy.

In the history of commercial whaling, one species after another has been devastated by overhunting. The Prime Minister Yoshiro Mori should not let the Japanese Whaling Association and a few bureaucrats in the Fisheries Agency damage Japan’s foreign policy. This no doubt will infact happen because the U.S. and 14 other countries have formally condemned the Japanese whaling practices. All of which have stated If Japan continues to kill hundreds of whales a year, they will face serious political consequences.

Since 1994, Japan has continued to hunt whales in spite of multiple resolutions passed by the International Whaling Commission (IWC). Japan has a history of exploiting loopholes in conservation treaties to continue its commercial hunt. These treaties were created to protect the remaining great whales and allow them a chance to recover from the multiple threats to survival they face including pollution, global warming, and other destructive practices. But as we all know stopping Japans greed is a very difficult thing, i.e. Hiroshima. This is not emotional, it is only fact.

Last year, Japan had increased its catches of whales to include two additional species of whales, endangered sperm whales and Bryde's (pronounced Bru-dis) whales. In May 2000, Japan announced that, along with its self-allocated annual kill of 540 minke whales, it proposed to catch 50 Bryde's whales and 10 sperm whales in a move that was described by UK Fisheries Minister Elliot Morley as 'a blatant act of defiance of international opinion', deserving 'widespread international condemnation'.

Japans decision to begin killing two more protected species of whales demands the strongest response from the world community. There should be a boycott of all Japanese products and trade. In September 2000, Japans whaling fleet returned to port from the North Pacific having caught 43 Bryde's whales, 5 sperm whales and 40 minke whales. The fleet recently returned to port this April having killed an additional 440 minke whales. As you can see the numbers of whales killed are staggering. and by the Prime Ministers attitude of 'cockroaches of the sea' concerning whales, the slaughter will only get worse.

Since 1986, commercial whaling has been banned by the International Whaling Commission (IWC), the international body set up in 1946 to regulate whaling. Using a clause in the whaling Convention that allows member nations to issue themselves special permits for whaling for 'scientific purposes', Japan has defied the IWC decision and caught over four thousand minke whales in the last 12 years. Norway has also defied the IWC killing over 600 minke whales per year as well. The IWC has consistently and repeatedly issued Resolutions criticizing the Japanese Scientific Whaling Program, and asking Japan to stop. Japan has ignored these criticisms and continued. Japan carries out most of its Scientific Whaling in the Antarctic's Southern Ocean Sanctuary, which was designated by the IWC in 1994 as an area in which no whale hunting should take place.

The IWC does not need information obtained by killing whales and has stated that Japan's scientific whaling data is 'not required for management'. Trade in the meat of these whales caught under 'scientific permit' provides a 'cover' for the sale of protected species of whales in Japan. Recent DNA analyses of whale meat on sale in Japanese markets have found meat from gray, humpback, fin, Bryde's, sperm and sei whales selling for over $200 per pound making the killing of whales a big business indeed. Japan's so-called 'scientific research' is a guise and is not about science but is about greed. Once again we see the strong connection of Japan and greed. this connection is again based on truth, logic, and reason.

The coincidence of whales ending up in the fish shops in Tokyo would lead some to believe that there were perhaps at least some other motives than just scientific enlightenment. I think that most people accept that Japanese wish to hunt whales for commercial purposes and utilize the scientific provision in the convention as a loophole.'

I suggest it is time for the 15 nations who have formally condemned Japan to bomb them as the U.S. did in WWII. The whaling issue is not just a social or cultural issue, it is pollitical as well. My foundation for this goes back to trying to stop the communists in the cold war. America had to stop communism from spreading and we took the necessary actions both in Vietnam and Korea. There was a certain domino effect of the spread of ideas contrary to those of the U.S. that had to be stopped.Japan is trying it's hardest to spread their beliefs and the domino effect has now hit American soil and we should be worried. Japans whaling influence has reached influence Northwestern America and must be stopped as soon as possible. Here are a few examples:

· The Makah initiated their desire to revive whaling in approximately 1990. For the next five years they openly admitted their intent to ‘Whale Commercially’. Only after they obtained the services of the high profile Washington, DC lobbying firm Denny Miller and Associates, did they change their approach. Now the Makah expect us to believe this is about spirituality and culture!

· This approach is reminiscent of aboriginal salmon food fisheries which quickly became commercial businesses.

· The Makah have conveniently changed a few key works, that are frightening in their implications; changing ‘subsistence whaling’ for ‘cultural whaling’ . This will, if unchallenged, open the door to global whaling giants like Japan and Norway.

· The Nuu-Chah-Nulth of Vancouver Island claim to share the same aboriginal rights as the Makah.

· Tom Happynook, the Nuu-Chah-Nulth chief, makes it perfectly clear that his people are going into the business of Whaling.

· Tom is also the head of the ‘World Council of Whalers’ whose funding comes almost exclusively from Japan and Norway.

· Tom was recently in Japan. His visit coincided with a Japanese Whaling Festival, supported by the whaling industry and the Japanese government.

· The Japanese were also celebrating the launch of a new 650 Tonne whaling ship.

· The wording of documents I've read, show the possibility that aboriginals may simply sell their allotted quota (if achieved) to the highest bidder. So much for spirituality and culture!

I do believe we should bomb and destroy Japan and its leadership; although, we should not kill any civilians. I recommend that before we bomb Japan we give the civilians an alloted time to escape the country. Who knows, maybe they could make there way into China and travel to Nanking. After they apologize for the atrocities of the past maybe then they could both live a peaceful life together. This would make the world a better place for all.

I personally think this is a viable solution because of a recent MORI poll of the attitude of the Japanese public towards whaling revealed that of the people questioned, only about ten percent supported whaling. The survey found that virtually nobody thought Japan's cultural identity would suffer if whaling were to stop. Significantly, however, of those who did support whaling, only one in five were prepared to see whaling continue in the face of damage it may cause to Japan's reputation and economy. These results suggest that the whaling policy of the Japanese Government would not necessarily be supported by public opinion. This has been based on fact, logic, and reason. Thanks for your time.

I know there are many typos in my previous statement please ignore them for I forgot to run the spell and grammar check.

Anthony...this is too much. I am against commercial whaling, but would rather see all the whales in the ocean taken before 'bombing' anyone over whales. You simply cannot be serious...if you are...you need professional help (and I don't mean the Four Whalemen of the Apocalypse...er...ng). You are truly a sick person.

terminalethargy(Douglasred)

look Doug, I am the only one to stick up for you in this group. I don't agree with everything you say, but I still tell them to let you say it. If we are for anti-whaling we can not go into this half assed. we tried diplomacy and it did not work. It's all or nothing now.

We here in NZ kill millions of cows and sheep each year and sell them in not only our own markets but also markets overseas. What is your point?

Law which is based on politics rather than science. How an animal numbering in the millions can be considered endangered is well beyond me, but perhaps someone will explain it.

Are they? I thought they got back ages ago.

More I believe. The sample size had to be increased due to the growing population estimate.

Nor will it ever be.

The whaling IS for scientific purposes. In 1987 the commercial moratorium was imposed with the reason being 'there are scientific uncertainties in the data being used by the scientific committee'. Japan began research to address these uncertainties. Yet, despite anti-whaling nations complaining about the uncertainties, when Japan undertakes a program of scientific whaling to obtain information to remove those uncertanties the anti-whaling nations oppose that as well!

The meat is a delicacy now because of the limited supply, but in the past was a cheap supply of nutrients for the Japanese.

The meat is sold because that is the most profitable use of the meat after the examinations have been undertaken, and the ICRW specifically says that whale corpses must be processed to the fullest extents possible.

That's right. This was due to hunting for whale oil by nations such as the US, UK, Australia and NZ.

Yoshiro Mori is no longer the Japanese Prime Minister. Additionally, Japan has every right to eat whales.

Wow, 14 countries. How many countries are there in the world? Over 50% of the nations at a recent CITES meeting voted to downlist Minke whale meat so that limited trade could occur. Does it sound like a majority of nations are against whaling? No - in fact the opposite.

Additionally, even if a majority was against whaling, why should that mean the minority groups must abandon their culture?

Yeah right. Can you imagine NZ boycotting Japanese products over this? NZ exports a huge amount to Japan, it is one of our greatest trading partners. If we were to take action we would be the ones to suffer, not the Japanese. And can you imagine Bush taking such an action at the present time?

These threats amount to nothing but voting-buying political propaganda to try to give the citizens of their respective countries that they are taking a stand against whaling.

If the threats were serious someone would have acted on those threats by now.

So what? The antiwhaling nations are in the majority at the IWC. What is more ridiculous is that Japan's whaling is perfectly legal - anyone who can read the ICRW will not be able to deny this. Why is it that those anti-whaling nations refuse to accept Japan's whaling despite it being legal under the constitution of the IWC?

There is no loophole. Article 8 of the constitution is being exercised in EXACTLY the way it was designed to be exercised, and anyone who can read the constitution for themselves should be able to see this is true.

It's not a commercial hunt - the IWC scientific committee have commended Japan's research program. If Japan was not supplying the committee with valuable information how else would the IWC scientific committee have loads of scientific documents from the Japanese?

Anyone calling the hunt a 'commercial hunt' has plainly failed to read the ICRW, or else they can simply not understand the plain english in which it is written.

That's right. Japan recognised this and was one of the first countries to sign. My own New Zealand not only joined after the Japanese, but they also left the committee after we ceased our whaling operations due to lack of profitability. We didn't rejoin until after our mini-cultural revolution.

I'm afraid it is 1) your opinion 2) emotional as it brings up the issue of WWII

Anthony - what you clearly fail to realise is that whaling countries formed the IWC because they were afraid that overfishing could lead to the distinction of the whales and thus the end to their industries. It is every single IWC members interests that whales are not driven to extinction - the whaling nations included.

It is a very simple concept - sustainable utilization of resources. This concept is applied to many other things, and it is only natural to those who have no culture of whale worship that it should be applied to the whales as well.

At last count around 2,000,000?

You were talking 440 before.

That man was merely expressing the opinions of the a anti-whaling nations. He did not speak for anyone else. And once again, Japan's whaling is perfectly legal.

They are only on the protected lists of some organizations, and besides, the whaling is legal.

Yeah - and destroy NZ's economy. Those threats are hollow and will never be acted upon.

Again you have got it totally wrong. The Prime Minister made no such comments. Additionally, the description of cockroaches of the sea was taken right out of context. Mr Komatsu (the person who DID make those comments) elaborated by explaining that the Minke whales were very abundant and fast swimming, thus the comparison to cockroaches.

Hell, they are never going to kill more than a percentage or two a year. If you want slaughter you ought to look at NZ - we kill millions of animals each year.

Where did you copy all this stuff from?

The clause in the IWC says that 'notwithstanding anything in this convention...'

This is hardly 'defying' the IWC, Japan is exercising it's legal rights.

Big deal. What percentage of 760,000 Minke whales is 4000? By the way, the program started in 1987, so I think you'll find the whaling has been going on for more than 12 years.

So what? They vote based on domestic politics. Can you imagine the furore if Sandra Lee went to the IWC and voted for whaling? The government here would be kicked out of office.

Why has it ignored those 'criticisms', and continued Anthony? *because it has every right to do what it does and it is acting in the spirit of the ICRW*

Can't be that many - you copied and pasted a lot of it! That stuff about bombing Japan was original though!

Excuse me Doug - but Anthony is entitled to his opinion. I wish you would stop bullying him and calling him names just because you don't happen to agree with him.

By the way, all the whales in the ocean are not even being targetting by commercial whaling. Japan and other whaling nations only intend on harvesting those animals which are in surplus. The overall population level of the Minke whales will be sustained even when commercial whaling resumes.

Another answer I would like from Anthony: How many Minkes do there have to be before Japan can take 3000 or so a year without worrying about the resource being decreased?

I feel really sorry for you Anthony. I hate to break it to you, but Doug knows bugger all about whaling. You are all on your own here.

only the direct quote from the Englishman and Australian President were copied.

I am certainly starting to feel that way. Although I will not give up and most definitely will not give into the intimidation tactics by Floyd, clund and yourself.

'Another answer I would like from Anthony: How many Minkes do there have to be before Japan can take 3000 or so a year without worrying about the resource being decreased?'

I don't know debiddo. How many Natives do there have to be before the head shrinking cannibals of south-east Asia can take 3000 or so a year without worrying about the resource being decreased?