My Profile

Keep Up to Date:
Blog RSS
Blog
Forum RSS
Forum
Post New Topic Post Reply
Posted 10 Months ago
Gastrok
Senior Boarder
Posts: 77
graphgraph
User Offline
 
Somebody asked a while back for a reference source in regards to DNA sampling of whale meat ... I could´nt find the original post but anyway .. whoever it was..here is the Norway Report first..

Source : TRAFFIC
http://www.traffic.org/iwc/norway.html

In Norway, for certain fishing communities whaling is a centuries old tradition. Embarked on small wooden vessels, less than 30m long, fishermen hunted whales armed with a hand harpoon and a rifle. Nowadays, vessels have engines, powerful winches to haul the whale on board, the harpoon is fired with a cannon and is equipped with a grenade to kill the whale more rapidly but the size of the vessels has not changed and their hull is still in wood. Until 1986, Norway used to export large quantities of whale products to Japan. According to Japanese Customs Statistics, a total of 3970 tonnes of whale products (both meat and blubber) was imported by Japan from Norway from 1980 to 1986 (Anon. 1997a). It is therefore not surprising that Norway and Japan are turning to CITES in an attempt to break deadlocks. CITES deals with international trade and it is principally this aspect of the whaling issue that should be dealt with in that forum.

Norway ratified CITES on 27 July 1976 (entry into force on 25 October 1976), but took reservations for three species of baleen whales, minke whale Balaenoptera acutorostrata (except West Greenland stock), sei whale B. borealis (reservation not applicable to stocks (A) in North Pacific and ( in area from 0° longitude to 70° east longitude, from the equator to the Antarctic Continent) and fin whale B. physalus and for one species of tooth whale, sperm whale Physeter catodon.

For the third time, the Norwegian government submitted a proposal to transfer the Northeast Atlantic and North Atlantic Central stocks of minke whale Balaenoptera acutorostrata from Appendix I to II at the meeting of the Conference of the Parties (COP) of CITES in April 2000 (Annex 1). On both previous occasions, in 1994 at COP 9 and in 1997 at COP 10, Parties opposing the proposals expressed concern about acting counter to CITES's own precautionary measures, or against the International Whaling Commission (IWC) decisions, the moratorium on whaling since 1986, while those supporting the proposals argued that there was no scientific basis for maintaining the populations in Appendix I.

IWC has come under increased criticism and is behind schedule regarding the finalisation of the Revised Management Scheme (RMS) and the adoption of the Revised Management Procedure (RMP). In the past 10 years, the Norwegian government has worked on improving the control of whaling and of trade in whale products. Legislation has been adopted and specific measures imposed on Norwegian whalers and traders. Such efforts are mentioned in the supporting statements prepared by Norway for CITES COP11.

An addendum to the supporting statement of the proposal submitted by Norway at COP10 in 1997 described a trade control system based on a DNA register of whale specimens. The present study reviews the basis of this system, looks at the progress made by the Norwegian authorities in setting-up this system and attempting to verify its efficiency. Other aspects of Norwegian control of whaling and marketing of related products are described.

CONCLUSION

Based on the present review, it seems that the Norwegian authorities are gradually improving their ability to control whaling and the trade in whale products in Norway. All stocks of whale products, including the stockpiles of blubber, stored by first-hand buyers and wholesalers (not retailers) must be annually reported to the responsible Norwegian agency. Based on reports from these companies, the inventory of whale products remaining in large cold-storage is updated. Sites and volumes of blubber for location are recorded. In December 1999, the estimate of the total stockpile of blubber stored in Norway had not been officially published, but reliable sources mentioned that it is probably close to 400 tonnes.

Since COP 10, the progress made in the set-up of an operational DNA register of all whales legally caught in Norwegian waters since 1997 appears to be significant DNA profiles from a selection of samples on the Norwegian market were secured by TRAFFIC and in June 2000 presented to the Norwegian government for matching with the register. However, we are concerned that this matching remains unresolved over a year later and keenly await further information from the Norwegian authorities. Until such time, it cannot be verified that the DNA register is fully operational.

Legal texts and implementation procedures appear to be lacking in two main aspects

Legislation on CITES provisions related to the 'introduction from the sea' in Norway; and The sampling of whale tissue and inclusion in the DNA register of the DNA profile of specimens caught incidentally in Norwegian waters. Their products must be landed and may be marketed as all other whaling products.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Posted 10 Months ago
Tesselator
Expert Boarder
Posts: 80
graphgraph
User Offline
 
You used to spout Traffic references to me Tim.

Why the sudden change of heart?

Ah yes, the old Greenpeace activist

This doesn't seem to be at all accurate
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Posted 10 Months ago
watto
Senior Boarder
Posts: 76
graphgraph
User Offline
 
This is a quite interesting article actually, thank you

Regarding the DNA stuff, why didn't you quote the Japanese response?

'With regard to DNA testing in the market place, the work of IFAW-funded scientists lacks credibility. Their pronouncements that blue whale meat was found on the market in Japan were proven false by Japanese scientists and later corrected by the authors themselves. Further, contrary to standard scientific procedures, they have consistently refused to provide samples for independent verification.'

The response from IFAW was noticeable by it's absence.

Also

'Japan is opposed to the inclusion of DNA market testing in the IWC’s Revised Management Scheme simply because, from a legal point of view, the IWC’s mandate is to regulate whaling, not markets. Insistence that DNA market testing be included is just one example of stalling by anti-whaling members to prevent the IWC from functioning. Even so, Japan has voluntarily instituted a DNA register and market sampling programme. Results of market sampling and testing by The World Conservation Union (IUCN-Traffic) indicate that the small amount of meat whose origin is questioned could have come from frozen storage, stranded animals or whales accidentally caught in fishing nets.'

How about this for a dumb response from IFAW: 'I must disagree with your assertion that Japan’s whale research programs have a sound scientific basis. The international scientific community seems to view research whaling as anything but scientifically sound. Why else would the IWC ask you to cease every year? '

Politics! The IWC has nothing to do with science.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Posted 10 Months ago
BGIII
Senior Boarder
Posts: 61
graphgraph
User Offline
 
<SNIP>

Try this one then 8-p

Tim, dude - have a read

FROM: Alan Macnow Consultant, Japan Whaling Association

JUNK SCIENCE TARGETS WHALING

A campaign to make it appear that whales are being caught illegally and smuggled into Japan was waged on the eve of the opening of this year's meeting of the International Whaling Commission by the International Fund for Animal Welfare (IFAW). The group, whose practices got it barred from membership in the prestigious World Conservation Union, employed a team of anti-whaling scientists, ecologists, and activists from New Zealand, the US and Japan to 'prove' that illegal whale meat is being marketed in Japan.

Their results ran contrary to DNA testing of 228 samples of whale meat in Japanese outlets conducted recently by TRAFFIC Japan, affiliated with the World Wildlife Fund for Nature (WWF) and the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES), and the government of Japan. Those studies revealed no traces of the blue, sei, or humpback whale meat which the IFAW team claims it found in the Japanese market.

'Scientists' in the IFAW team have been cited before for publicizing questionable results unsupported by adequate data. Their current studies suffer from the same fault. They have not been peer reviewed and no supporting data have been made available. Although since 1995 their papers assert that 'DNA sequences of these test samples and those published from previous surveys . . . are available from the authors' Internet home page at: http://www.sbs.auckland.ac.nz/staff/bakerscott.html', there has not been anything at that site except for a description of one 'scientist's' research interests and a notation: 'Last updated: 28 Sept 95'.

The Scientific Committee of the International Whaling Commission has rejected their papers in the past.

In past papers, members of the IFAW team (then working for the advocacy group 'EarthTrust' erroneously identified a single piece of meat as both a minke whale and a humpback whale, another as a cross between a sperm whale and a harbor porpoise, and another as a type of dolphin that is found only in waters around southern Africa. They also could not identify a high percentage of the samples taken from Japanese markets.

Some of the defects of the IFAW team's current papers are:

* No supporting data are presented. The results cannot be verified. There is no evidence that all the samples were collected in Japan; some could in reality have come from Iceland, Mexico or New Zealand. There is no way of knowing as long as the researchers refuse to disclose the underlying data;

* The papers contain mistakes and omissions. In one paper, a table of haplotypes contains strings of unidentified nucleotide base pairs; no conscientious researcher would include these in his results. In another, (SC48/038) an entry for a sample referred to in the text is missing from the table.

* There is no detailed description of the precautions taken to avoid contamination of the samples and no control tests. The PCR procedure used to amplify the mtDNA control region selected is notoriously susceptible to contamination from bacteria, dandruff, mishandling of samples, even an unguarded sneeze. As the PCR amplifications were carried out in hotel rooms not in sanitary laboratories, contamination is a real concern.

* The papers often seem more concerned about the propaganda value of the 'results' than with objective science. For example, a whale meat sample which the authors admit may be from a hybrid of a fin whale with a blue whale (taken off Iceland during the period when trade in whale meat between Iceland and Japan was legal) later appears throughout the documents unequivocally termed a 'blue whale'. IFAW compounded this fiction in press releases trumpeting that its researchers had found evidence that the highly endangered blue whale was being sold in Japanese markets.

* Other mistakes include:

An assessment that fin whale meat found in Japanese markets must have come from a 'Minimum of 18 different individual whales.' If this were true, and if the Japanese were responsible for the catch as implied by the authors, there would be almost as much fin whale meat found in the markets as southern minke whale meat, instead of just a handful of samples. A single fin whale yields 50 mt tons of edible products compared to 3 mt tons for a minke. 18 fin whales would yield 900 mt, an amount equal to the catch of 300 minke whales.

A 'finding' that some of the north Pacific minke whale products found in Japanese markets are identical to whale products found in Korean markets is unproven and the conclusion that the Japanese products must have been smuggled in from Korea is unfounded. The researchers were unable to locate that area in the control region that is used to identify stocks so they based their conclusions on haplotype similarities. However same species haplotypes for whales are very similar and, by themselves, without the presence of stock identifiers, cannot be used to identify with any assurance whether one sample of a species is from the same location as another. They also cannot claim that one sample is identical to another unless there is a perfect match of nucleotide sequences. They did not show this except for a single case in which a minke whale sample from Japan in 1996 matched a minke whale sample found in Korea a year later. If that case were correct, it would appear that the whale meat was smuggled to Korea, not the other way around.

The Japanese do not dispute that there is a wide variety of whale meat products on the market in Japan but not as a result of widespread smuggling or illegal catches. There is still fin and Bryde's whale meat from stockpiles frozen before 1986 when the commercial whaling moratorium was imposed. This would account for the fact that the products of as many as 18 fin whales may be found in the markets without finding a great amount of fin whale meat there, too.

Other sources of whale meat are strandings and the accidental death of whales caught in coastal fishing nets. The meat from southern hemisphere and north Pacific minke whales surplus to research needs is marketed as required by Article VIII of the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling. Baird's beaked whale and small cetaceans do not come under the moratorium provisions of the IWC and can still be harvested under Japanese government regulations.

Ok Tim, now you can harp on about it being from the JWA.. then I can harp on about it being from IFAW lackeys etc etc etc...boring boring boring ...

Reference any independant studies and folk can discuss matters - I for one consider Traffic to be independant enough ( assuming they follow proper procedures etc )

On another note..

Like Havid did, I´m going to take aaw out of my ng list for a while .. this is getting pointless .. at first, I believed that discussions could ( despite the polarised standpoints ) be fruitful .. but these days I see more and more that it just degenerates into flaming and personal attacks ( and I´m just as guilty as the next ).. enough´s enough...so, bye for now ...have fun

John

PS .. George - your email account is bouncing mails back - see you in the pub friday ß)
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Posted 10 Months ago
fifngoopuiui
Expert Boarder
Posts: 81
graphgraph
User Offline
 
Trying to form a consensus with people who believe whaling is wrong as a principle is pointless. They will believe anything if it supports what they want to believe (Richard is the worst in this department). But you already know this. At least it seems that there are people who do read these groups without the preconceptions. That is what is not pointless.

If you find yourself on the end of a personal attack, pat yourself on the back.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Posted 10 Months ago
Gastrok
Senior Boarder
Posts: 77
graphgraph
User Offline
 
http://www.pyrates.com/fanclub/ Member of The Brazen Arms The Unknown RenMerc Traviticus insanicus Plot Plot Plot The Wheels of the Temple, Carrier of the Heavenly Brew Acolyte to the Goddess of Love, Gracious Pragmatist to Bared Minds and Sensitive Sipper of Life's Offerings Nobility is not a birthright, it is defined by ones actions.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Posted 10 Months ago
cisko
Expert Boarder
Posts: 89
graphgraph
User Offline
 
Being on the end of a personal attack can only mean one of two things: 1) You are a complete fool. 2) You are have made a complete fool of someone else.

John clearly isn't a complete fool.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Posted 10 Months ago
Gastrok
Senior Boarder
Posts: 77
graphgraph
User Offline
 
Cheers, Jon.. first rounds on you boyo...
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
Copyright © 2006 - Nov 2008 My Green Peace Buddies