Makah Supporters Long Reply to Sea Shepherd Rant

Hey Mark! Norway and Japan aren't 'destroying our oceans'. Not by picking off a few whales every year, anyway. Don't make a fool of yourself.

If you want to look at people who 'destroy our oceans', look to the US and other major polluters.

I get the feeling that the concept that pollution is the worst threat to the oceans is a little too much for some people Take the hint Mark

It's not that it's too much, it's just that it's a lot easier to go after a handful of whalers than doing something about the pollution. Whaling makes no differnece to 99% of the people on this planet, so ending whaling would not make any difference to one's own life. But doing something about pollution, otoh, means changing one's own lifestyle, and there aren't many people willing to do that. Better just to scream about whaling while driving your SUV. Just like Rich does.

That'll be the day.

Thanks for replying in this forum (a.a.w) to Jason's rant. Good points.

Richard Hayduke Lives! 'In wildness is the preservation of the world' Henry David Thoreau

killfilter in reply to an article my $%#% ISP has lost somewhere:

(I wrote)

(mark wrote a reply to me)

Really? Which place is that?

Nope. I own a bike. Zero emissions.

What that has to do with whales? I'll tell you what that has to do with whales: Pollution is the only threat whales face today, and cars pollute. Rather than do something about the real threat to sea life - which is pollution, 'enviro' types (like yourself) go after the easy target; whaling. And you're too dense to see your own hypocrisy. Want to save the whales? Fine. So do the whalers. Target pollution.

Whalers don't 'trash the oceans', Mark. Big polluters like the US of A do.

Maybe you'll take a hint or fourteen yourself some day...

That's because whale-worshipers like yourself are few and far between, and your numbers are dwindling - at least outside NZ and Australia.

No, you killfiled me because I kept throwing your hypocrisy in yor own face. Lies? Not a single one. I'd challange you to provide an example of some of my alleged 'lies', but you'd never see it behind your killfilter.

No, but you do drive a smelly car quite a way every day to get to work, when you could have done your bit for the whales by moving closer to your workplace and getting a bike. You demand that *other* people change their lives to suit you, but you aren't willing to change *your* way of life. And that's what makes you a hypocrite.

Bah. I'm talking to a killfilter.

Actually, I didn't. And so what if I did? Go get a bike, hypocrite.

I don't want to kill whales. Nor trash oceans (I wish the so called 'environmentalists' would do something about this)

Actually, and for the record, I invited Mark to join the melee in Usenet, rather than the more-restricted and slow-loading Highnorth guestbook. Hey, I've even been trying to get Andrew Christie to come back.

Mark's rejoinder was both disappointing and predictable. 'Because Jason is not involved in ocean conservation, Jason is not a true environmentalist.' <sigh>

Let me turn that around for you fellows: If you are not involved in the preservation of the Valley longhorn elderberry beetle, you are not a true environmentalist. Indeed, Rich lives in the (former?) habitat zone of this remarkable humble little critter, and I'd be willing to venture that he's never lifted so much as a telephone to call Cal Trans to ask them to stay out of elderberry zones. If ya contradict me, Rich, be prepared to come up with some proof.

Mark, one of the questions that I asked (which you evaded) was why select relatively abundant species for activist efforts when there are far more endangered species. As you accurately pointed out, I am pretty ignorant about marine conservation and cetaceans. There is a cure for ignorance: information. So here are some specifics: on a list of the world's most endangered animals http://www.animalinfo.org/rarest.htm appear two cetaceans, the Baiji, which I mentioned on the earlier post, and the Indus valley dolphin. How can one justify prioritizing relatively abundant species over these?

Let me phrase that question in terms of bird species: How could one prioritize the protection of robins or blue jays over that of condors or marbled murrelets? Not that I'm in favor of extinction of any of them, but there are some generally accepted principles of salvage biology. How about first things first?

And speaking of lifestyle, Rich, you are such a flipping hypocrite about the environment. I don't really care if you drive a thrifty car, your hot tub is way more than the equivalent of two Ford Explorers in energy use and consumption. And speaking of ocean pollution, Mark, you might want to find out the record of your hero Paul Watson about violations of discharge permits. No double standard, or is there? Paul didn't care about the pollution consequences of scuttling his own ship in Spain; all he cared about was the media footage it got him

Since when did talking figuratively equal lying?

A whole lot of pathetic rubbish that has nothing whatever to do with people killing whales...today.....

Graeme,

I don't think he intended his post, whether you think it rubbish or not, bo with people killing whales. It appeared to me that he was trying to get Rich to take a good look at himself and his attitued towards people. You know, those other living beings that are exacly like you in only one thing. The fact that they are different.

Regards,

David Wiersema

'They are nice folks, Rich, good neighbors. And every day for the rest of your life, thank God you are in Indian Country.'

Thanks, Jason..I needed to hear that. Below is the 'typical' kind of stuff that we're hearing around here now that a Makah family has decided to hunt.

FROM A LOCAL (PACIFIC NW) FORUM:

Alma quotes someone saying this about the Makah's new effort to torture and slaughter a whale: 'It&#8217;s such a small effort and it means so much to them as a tribe.'

******************************* This is both scary and repulsive. Imagine being described as someone who is so primitive and ignorant that slowly killing an animal 'means so much.' (Add it to the list of domestic abuse, alcoholism, drug addiction, and unemployment - all so attractive, romantic, and 'mysterious.'

I was certain that the Makahs were lying again. I can't understand how they can lie so often and so casually, but it would seem that honor isn't in their vocabulary, along with all those other words that seem to develop as the morality of a group evolves over time.

So the ugly fat drug addicts are going out on the water again, to cause suffering to a creature more intelligent than they (and certainly more beautiful) and when they are done with their deed, they once again can backflip off the corpse, exchange high-fives, and then waste the meat, as before.

Meanwhile, the men can't seem to find anything else to do on the rez. Garbage is piled everywhere. The beach looks like a dump. The shacks need paint. The yards are full of miscellaneous junk. The children hang out in gangs. The men spend their days riding around in trucks, glowering, and accomplishing nothing. And everybody waits for checks.

However, the whale must be killed. This will change everything. Won't it?

Won't it?

ChristopherL, gagging