NAMMCO - all whaling is irresponsible and must cease!

Go to http://www.nammco.no/Default.htm Nammco's site

Consider this nugget from the Scientific Committee.

'Faroese fin whales In 1999, the NAMMCO Council asked the Scientific Committee to conduct an assessment of fin whales in Faroese waters, providing advice on the long-term effects of annual removals of 5, 10 and 20 fin whales, and identifying information gaps that may need to be filled in order to complete a full assessment in this area.

The Scientific Committee noted that there was little information with which to delineate stock areas for fin whales in the North Atlantic, and therefore conducted assessments on arbitrarily defined stock areas of various sizes. Assessments were based on historical harvest data and abundance data from the North Atlantic Sightings Surveys (NASS). The results of these assessments indicated that fin whales in the area have likely been substantially depleted by past harvests, but there was great uncertainty in the results, depending primarily on the choice of stock area and Maximum Sustainable Yield Rate. Estimates of sustainable yield ranged from 5 to 257, depending on the scenario considered.

The Scientific Committee noted that in attempting to respond to the Council?s request for advice on the long-term effect of various catch levels in the Faroese area, it had immediately become apparent that there is insufficient information on stock identity to carry out a reliable assessment of the status of fin whales in Faroese waters, and thus provide reliable advice on the effects of various catches. The Scientific Committee therefore recommended a research program primarily geared to understanding the stock relationships of fin whales around the Faroes.'

Will this research program bag '5' or '127' creatures, what is the level for so-called sustainable yield? This piece of reporting illustrates the total ignorance of the scientists employed of total whale population numbers and the wide range between guestimates of best and worst scenarios. Quite simply these chaps just do not know how many fin whales are out there and the chances are, that this population is probably under critical pressure from pollution and hunting activities right now. It would seem John came across this site, found something that suited whatever point of view he has adopted today, cut and pasted, and 'Bob's your uncle' presented an example of 'responsible whaling' to the group. If I keep repeating this do you think he will 'get it' - All Whaling is irresponsible and must cease - mind you if you look at the rest of NAMMCO's site you will be surprised at how there are points and discussions about 'sustainable harvests' for just about anything that moves - narwhals, seals, walruses, harbour porpoises, belugas, dolphins ... quite murderous in import really, if it moves, kill and eat it! There is a links page with links to both sides of the argument regarding cetaceans. In terms of promoting whaling this organisation shoots itself in the foot by admitting the great uncertainty about cetacean population numbers. As I have stated before there will be no last whale to gawk at, the various cetacean groups will simply irretreviably disappear, unless the killing is stopped. Geoff Carlin.

1.)Stock assessment Geoffy, conducting line transect surveys to identify population sizes via ship ( and or air )

2.)As in how many Fin whales in area A, How many in area B and so on.. are you still with me Geoffy? or have I gone beyond your tiny mind´s limited capacity already?

3.) Depending on which model they applied to the data Geoffy..

4.) NAMMCO realises that more data is neccessary and recommends more surveys to be carried out to determine stock sizes.

The research program does not 'bag ' anything Geoffy, these are line transect surveys

This piece of reporting illustrates the total

All your post illustrates is your complete ignorance of the methods used to estimate stock numbers Geoffy. NAMMCO is recommending that more data is collected via line transect surveys etc, before any management advice can be given.

Quite simply

Fin whales are´nt hunted Geoffy ( at the moment )the only simple thing here is you basically

It would seem John came across

I´ve known about NAMMCO since it began Geoffy

found something that suited whatever point of view he has adopted

( Laughing my ass off here ) Geoffy the 'newspicker' complaining when I post a press release HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHA .. and its a PDF file I have that I used as a reference - I get sent all sorts of PDF files Geoffy, from both ' sides of the argument ' You can also download PDF files of press releases from quite a few websites - DO you know what a PDF file is Geoffy??

My points of view are consistant Geoffy, and my uncle´s have a number of names, none of which is Bob

If I keep repeating this do you think he

Get what Geoffy? that you are a raving moron? I got that quite a while ago..

mind you if

Yes Geoffy, points and discussion. You obviously have a problem with the idea of substainable harvest other than your own delusional ideas.

I must have missed where NAMMCO states that geoffy, can you you show me where? I won´t hold my breath...

Why does that surprise you Geoffy?, could it be because many anti-whaling NGO websites only present a one sided link list if any?? why is that Geoffy? you tell us...

In terms of promoting whaling this organisation shoots itself in

Interesting, you are against line transect surveys to scientifically determine Fin Whale population numbers Geoffy - why is that? Perhaps you are afraid that the numbers have increased substantially? I would have thought that you would welcome having accurate population sizes.. but then again, maybe not, if the population is large enough and growing it would take away another brick in your wall of belief, would´nt it?

The only one shooting himself in the foot here is you Geoffy, the more you post, the more clear it becomes how ignorant you are...but keep at it geoffy, you´re vying for the title of ' alt.animals.whales newsgroup village idiot '

keep it up geoffy, you have a good chance of the winning the title 8-)

Is there a need to be so arrogant and condescending, John?

terminalethargy(Douglasred)

Geoff Carlin deserves it.

I think the shock will do Geoff good - wake him out of his delusions maybe

<SNIP-see previous posts>

Merely responding in kind Douglas, responding in kind... I know,I know, I should´nt let myself be dragged down to Geoffy´s level of arrogance and condesention but I had a headache...no excuse really but there you go.. I´m usually reasonably polite with him & his little bird...

consider my wrist slapped 8-)

On the other hand... why don´t you ask Geoffy the same question

On another note:

Just a partial reply to your post on the other thread here ( saves time )

you stated:

'But the Northern Right whale and the Californian Grey whale are doomed, according to population scientists.

It would be better to say that no whales are extinct because of whaling YET......'

...cough...cough...

California grey whale Back from the Brink

Hunting decreased their population from an estimated 24,000 to only a few thousand individuals. They were finally given protection in 1946, and over the last half century their numbers have increased to over 20,000. California grey whales are no longer considered endangered, and on June 16 1994 the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) removed the eastern North Pacific stock of gray whales from the U.S. List of Endangered and Threatened Wildlife. However, they are still protected under the US Marine Mammal Protection Act, prohibiting anyone from harassing or hunting them.

Ummm...older reference but still valid ( apart from the hunting comment <Makah>

...cough...cough...

It´s not too promising for the Northern right whale at the moment, but, on a brighter note...

'Whale of a calf season is all right

by Jules Crittenden Thursday, March 28, 2002

Northern right whales are in the middle of another bumper year for calves, researchers say.

In the traditional right whale breeding grounds off Florida and Georgia, 15 right whale calves have been born this month and another birth is expected soon.

That follows the 2001 calving season, in which 31 right whales were born. In the previous four years, only 10 were born. With seven confirmed deaths last year, the population of endangered northern right whales is estimated at 320, up from less than 300.'

It´s interesting that members of that population are seen occassionally in the area around Svalbard ( Spitzbergen). Also with occassional reported sightings off the North african / portugese coast ( ID animals not confirmed off NA/P )

I´ll reply to a few of your other posts later - it´s too nice a day to sit inside in front of the computer....

Must be a baaaad headache...the post you're referring to wasn't mine...sorry.

terminalethargy(Douglasred)

<snip>

duhhhhhhh.... Douglas, it was someone else´s post, my apologies to you 8)

This coming from the king of arrogant and condescending. He is not going to 'wake' Geoff out of his well considered views, he are merely displaying an inability to cope with differing viewpoints.

Richard Hayduke Lives! 'Remain a parasite OR become an Earth Warrior. Serve your Mother and prosper OR serve civilization and besmear yourself with the filth and guilt of ecocide.' Paul Watson

Geoffy has well considered views? or did you mean well considered delusions? good for him.. maybe one day somebody will agree with his delusions.... until then I won´t hold my breath ..

Inability to cope with differing viewpoints? <BG> Kettle.Pot.Black

Geoff is a nut Rev.