Truth from the International Whaling Commision

I see you've finally tried to do your homework, Edwin. You didn't do a very good job, but at least you tried. You deserve credit for that, at least.

Yes, and this is 'proves me wrong' because...?

I see you're resorting to nitpicking again. The increase is taking place despite the whaling.

So despite using numbers that are ten years out of date, you claim that this somehow proves me wrong? Note that the upper limit to that estime is well over a million.

The scientific committee does, yes.

Of which Norway takes 600-700 each year.

None of these are hunted by Norway, so those numbers aren't relevant to this discussion.

An increase was not noted with the ten-year old figures you provided. So?

600-700 from Norway, 2000(?) from Japan.

What?

No, the IWC's Scientific Committee supports Norway's (and Japan's) whaling. The IWC itself has become corrupted by GP and is no longer able to make decisions based on anything but politics.

You haven't proven otherwise.

But again, nice try.

Are you saying Norway isn't hunting Minke whales?

Correct.

According to the average anti-whaler, all whales are 'endangered' just because they're whales.

The Minke whale is being hunted, and because it's a whale, it's pr definition 'endangered', despite the high population count. So according to the anti-whalers (such as edwin), Norway is hunting an endangered species. Their numbers are increasing despite the hunt. So in a way, I'm having it both ways.

Yes, he has a point. It's on his head. You should have looked at the links he provided before backing him.

No, they do not.

Which facts would those be? The ones you referred to in the post that started this thread? They don't prove anything at all.

No, you have not proven me wrong.

That simply isn't true. If you want to just say anything you like without concern for truth, there's little point in having any discussion at all.

If I'm not mistaken you can find all kinds of 'studies' saying almost anything you like about minke whales. That is mostly because there are so many of them spead out all over the oceans that it's virtually impossible to actually get an accurate count.

Then you'd best try quoting the IWC, because this is being posted to alt.animals.whales, where there *are* people who know what the IWC says. The IWC figures do not show minke whales as being endangered. Same with sperm whales, Bryde's Whales, grey whales, pilot whales and others.

Just in case you missed the significance... neither Norway or Japan are hunting any endangered species. Nor are the Makah Indians.

The Inupiat Eskimo people here on the North Slope hunt bowhead whales, which *are* listed as endangered. The bowhead population is increasing in numbers every year too.

Can you say that with 500% certainty?

I'll make it easier for you:

Can you say that with 100% certainty?

No, they have all the characteristics of minkes.

You do know that whales come in different shapes and sizes don't you?

Why don't you read the IWC figures before you say something that is obviously wrong?

<buzzer noise>

'You are the weakest link...'

Minkes are a species. There are different stocks of Minke, not different species.

You did actually read these links of yours, didn't you?

'...goodbye'

That is true. Go to their site and look at the published figures.

Direct that at yourself and Mr. Lund.

Then nobody can prove that they're increasing in spite of whaling. To say so is a lie. The IWC won't even take a guess. Thanks for proving my point.

I did quote them. Mr. Lund is responsible for the cross posting, and for the removal of the relevant facts and quotes from my post.

Yes they do. Their figures, old though they may be, showed declining numbers of Minke Whale.

It's a bit foolish to cite protected species as evidence that whaling is not decreasing their numbers.

They're just pushing them into endangered status?

Bowheads are only showing a meager 3% increase in a small population of about 8,000 animals.
http://www.iwcoffice.org/Estimate.htm

Adios.

Minke whales? Bryde's Whales? Sperm whales? Eastern Pacific Grey whales? Pilot whales?

None of those, for example, are endangered. At least one of them has been in an 'over populated' status for the past few years.

The Science Committee of the IWC isn't making guesses. You haven't proven your point at all.

I'm not going to go look again, but it seems to me that you didn't quote them.

Let me repeat that 'The IWC figures do *not* show minke whales as being endangered.' (Emphasis added.)

What are you talking about? Those whales are *not* endangered. They are all being hunted.

Find some up to date numbers. Your figures are 10 years old and a census was done just last year.

Once again you call people liars when you run out of arguments.

Once again you resort to accusing people of being liars when you run out of arguments.

Uh, no, they did not, as anybody who bothered to read those links would know.

I snipped the links because there's no reason to keep quoting them. Anybody who wants to see them again can go look at your first post on this thread on google. And once again you accuse people of lying when you run out of arguments.

three populations: Southern hemisphere, north Atlantic, and northwest Pacific. http://www.iwcoffice.org/lives.htm (again, your link) devides them into two.. species? Where does it say that?

Actually, it does, since two of them definitly have a good population number and the third one isn't bad either. And the Norwegians are hunting on of the ones with a high population count, so there's nothing to worry about.

You need to be told quite a lot yourself, but you don't seem to be listening.

I'm looking at them. Now where are the figures that show that they are threatened/endangered? Since you insist on subdeviding the Minke:

Norway is hunting 500-700 Minke of a population that was approx 149 000 a decade ago (and has increased since). Japan is hunting ca 2000 (afaik) Minke of a population that was estimated at 761 000 almost fiften years ago (and has risen since).

Please explain to me how this is a threat to either populations of Minke.

And once again you call somebody a liar.

Anybody who makes you look like a fool, anyway.

I'd be impressed if you managed to do that even once.

So?

Did I say that the *site*, supported me? Or that the IWC's scientific committee supported me (which it does)? Go find out.

What makes you think either one of them is declining?